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  • Teenbat
    Teenbat closed this thread because:
    Getting off-topic
    15:56, February 22, 2017

    How different would things be if Clockwerk not only came after the cooper clan but also the Fox bloodline? Carmelita isn't a thief but I can imagine that her family is one of the reasons(inconveniences) as to why clockwerk never fully succeeded in wiping out the coopers (they rob from far worse crooks so that the authorities can get to them). He first would have viewed them as an inconvenience before developing actual hatred toward them as well. He also wants them to feel the same pain and suffering that he administers when he kills a cooper ancestor as well as satisfying a morbid interest in seeing a good cop, a supposed enforcer of law, justice, and order, crumple and snap emotionally and psychologically when a Criminal gets revenge on them, does harm to them or their loved ones, and destroys their personal life entirely.

    Basically Clockwerk also has a personal war against law enforcement and the justice system in this scenario.

    Imagine how would things roll out if he killed Carmelita's parents (and probably the entire police station they were working in) first so that they don't intervene when he attack's Sly's parents or so he thinks? how would all of that affect Carmelita's job as a Policewoman?

    I mean there are such things as Criminals whom after being released from or escape from prison who would take revenge on the police or just the cop that apprehended them.

    another question i have is this:

    How different would things be if Clockwerk also targeted the LeParadox Clan? Them being another but more indirect reason (and yet another inconvenience) to why Clockwerk never succeeded in killing the coopers (Half of Cyrille's ancestors being killed by Clockwerk because they also unknowingly stepped into an attempt by clockwerk to kill a cooper ancestor at the worst moment possible and instead got targeted by clockwerk when he finds out they were the reason his plan failed)?

    Basically the Coopers unintentionally turning the LeParadoxes into unwilling bait or distractions for clockwerk to prey on, And yes, Imagine if Cyrille LeParadox's father was killed by clockwerk (whom was trying to catch up to conner) after that failed heist? How would that affect his grudge ont he cooper clan if he found out his family also shared a history with clockwerk albeit worse than the coopers?

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    • I don't think all that much would have changed. Clockwerk would still have killed Conner, Sly would have still killed Clockwerk, Carmelita would still be after both Sly and Clockwerk (as well as other villains, which would just be a minor additional thing for those two to agree on), and Le Paradox would still hate Sly for what Conner did to his father. If Le Paradox went after Clockwerk, he would likely be mad that Sly got the revenge instead of him.

      Maybe the only real change would be that Le Paradox would try to kill Sly rather than just take the Cooper canes. Might have made a somewhat more interesting story, especially if Le Paradox was trying to kill the Cooper clan, and Sly had to stop that from happening before he faded away, similar to how Marty McFly was fading in the first Back to the Future when his parents were no longer destined to get married.

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    • Teenbat wrote:
      I don't think all that much would have changed. Clockwerk would still have killed Conner, Sly would have still killed Clockwerk, Carmelita would still be after both Sly and Clockwerk (as well as other villains, which would just be a minor additional thing for those two to agree on), and Le Paradox would still hate Sly for what Conner did to his father. If Le Paradox went after Clockwerk, he would likely be mad that Sly got the revenge instead of him.

      Maybe the only real change would be that Le Paradox would try to kill Sly rather than just take the Cooper canes. Might have made a somewhat more interesting story, especially if Le Paradox was trying to kill the Cooper clan, and Sly had to stop that from happening before he faded away, similar to how Marty McFly was fading in the first Back to the Future when his parents were no longer destined to get married.

      so it wont matter about Carmelita, wether her family was hunted down and systematically killed by clockwerk or not

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    • It really depends on the writers.

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    • Teenbat wrote:
      It really depends on the writers.

      i was thinking that she would be even more determined or devoted to her work as a cop, an even more solid black and white view of crime and law (she views criminals as murderers),  and determination to hunt down clockwerk much like sly.

      Probably be mre relatable with sly since both lost their parents to clockwerk in this scenario.

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    • Well, she only views murderers as murderers. She just believes that a crime as minor as jaywalking is still a crime and should be punished as such. It's not like she wants those people who commit such minor crimes to go to jail for life or anything.

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    • Teenbat wrote:
      Well, she only views murderers as murderers. She just believes that a crime as minor as jaywalking is still a crime and should be punished as such. It's not like she wants those people who commit such minor crimes to go to jail for life or anything.

      then how would clockwerk killing her parents and leaving her deeply traumatized affect that view?

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    • I really have no idea. My mother is the psychologist, not me. At the end of Thieves in Time, when Sly goes missing, Carmelita gets really intense and starts arresting people at a record pace. Perhaps she would have been like that from the start.

      Or maybe her parents deaths would have sent her into a depressed spiral, causing her to have never become a cop, instead opting to join a less dangerous field. At least one of her parents was a police officer, after all (Carmelita is a fourth generation cop). Maybe she would think that their career choice is the reason they were murdered and would want to stay out of it.

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    • Teenbat wrote:
      I really have no idea. My mother is the psychologist, not me. At the end of Thieves in Time, when Sly goes missing, Carmelita gets really intense and starts arresting people at a record pace. Perhaps she would have been like that from the start.

      Or maybe her parents deaths would have sent her into a depressed spiral, causing her to have never become a cop, instead opting to join a less dangerous field. At least one of her parents was a police officer, after all (Carmelita is a fourth generation cop). Maybe she would think that their career choice is the reason they were murdered and would want to stay out of it.

      and her not being a cop would probably be what clockwork would have wanted if he also came after Carmelita's bloodline. He probably expected sly to undergo the same thing and never become a thief

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    • Benjohn132 wrote:
      and her not being a cop would probably be what clockwork would have wanted if he also came after Carmelita's bloodline. He probably expected sly to undergo the same thing and never become a thief

      True, Clockwerk did say that he wanted to prove that the Thievius Raccoonus was the key to the Coopers master thievery. Though I think he wanted to make Sly a worse thief so he could better him, rather than remove him from the picture entirely. Otherwise he would have just killed Sly when he was eight.

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    • Teenbat wrote:

      Benjohn132 wrote:
      and her not being a cop would probably be what clockwork would have wanted if he also came after Carmelita's bloodline. He probably expected sly to undergo the same thing and never become a thief

      True, Clockwerk did say that he wanted to prove that the Thievius Raccoonus was the key to the Coopers master thievery. Though I think he wanted to make Sly a worse thief so he could better him, rather than remove him from the picture entirely. Otherwise he would have just killed Sly when he was eight.

      as for carmelita, clockwerk would have just killed her straightaway. Though if he were to spare carmelita, it would be to show that police officers are not invincible and not without enemies, lots of them.


      Though i would add, she would avoid becoming a cop if she also learned that the other three generations of cops in her family as well as every member of her ancestry met the same fate as her parents: Killed by Clockwerk.

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    • This is assuming that somehow Carmelita's ancestors all line up with Sly's ancestors, otherwise Clockwerk would have no reason. There would have to be a "Salim al-Fox," etc.

      At this point, it's extremely unlikely; we're deep into non-canon territory. Though Tennessee does say that Carmelita reminded him of somebody.

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    • Teenbat wrote:
      This is assuming that somehow Carmelita's ancestors all line up with Sly's ancestors, otherwise Clockwerk would have no reason. There would have to be a "Salim al-Fox," etc.

      At this point, it's extremely unlikely; we're deep into non-canon territory. Though Tennessee does say that Carmelita reminded him of somebody.

      for me, it's because the fox's were another reason why the cooper bloodline continues to exist, constantly intervening with his plans and attempting to put the immortal crook in his place, which would be infuriating for clockwerk. And thus he ends up bringing many of the law enforcing careers of the Fox's to an abrupt end (they never retired), but after they concieve children much like the coopers. though there would be cases in which clockwerk kills the wife and children of some of carmelita's ancestors with those ancestors reacting by exacting cruel revenge on clockwerk and remarrying to another person.

      simply put, because everybody hates the police.

      He would be more cruel towards Carmelita's bloodline than Cooper's. 


      This is a more opinionated question but, if you were a criminal would you want to to take revenge on the cop who arrested you/blew your operations and his family?

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    • I have no idea. I'm not a criminal, so I can't really think like one (well, maybe I could, but I don't really want to). I have a deep respect for those who put their lives at risk every single day to stop people from doing things that they shouldn't do.

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    • Teenbat wrote:
      I have no idea. I'm not a criminal, so I can't really think like one (well, maybe I could, but I don't really want to). I have a deep respect for those who put their lives at risk every single day to stop people from doing things that they shouldn't do.

      if i were a criminal i would wage a personal war on law enforcement or just make the life of one particular cop, a living hell

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    • You would probably get arrested pretty quickly.

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    • Teenbat wrote:
      You would probably get arrested pretty quickly.

      Nah, i'd get the death sentence.

      But it'd be worth it

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    • Benjohn132 wrote:
      Nah, i'd get the death sentence.

      But it'd be worth it

      That's pretty messed up. It would be worth getting the death penalty to wage a war on law enforcement or torment an individual? Maybe I should close this thread.

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    • Teenbat wrote:

      Benjohn132 wrote:
      Nah, i'd get the death sentence.

      But it'd be worth it

      That's pretty messed up. It would be worth getting the death penalty to wage a war on law enforcement or torment an individual? Maybe I should close this thread.

      that's only if i were a criminal

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    • This thread has served its purpose.

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